21. YES it's rigged!!!

Does anybody else get "software updates" quite often? Every time I get a "software update"(Poker Stars) I start losing my butt off, no matter how good I play!
I get these updates often, but I see no changes that have occured, why not?

It is IMPOSSIBLE for 20,000 players to play a tournament in 7 hours or less, like the Poker Stars Sunday 100k tournament, so it has to be rigged to get rid of players fast!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted at 1:11AM on Aug 15th 2007 by Joe

22. I have been playing online poker since pokerstars and pokerroom.com first opened there doors.been playing the game for about 15 years.i can honestly say i see more bad beats.more four of a kinds.more str8 flushes,more 4 of a kind on board and 2-3 players having a bullet.more split pots.and a randomazation in the cards.yes i am one of the people who do beleive online poker is all rigged.it has to be in order from keeping the pro's from cashing out millions monthly.the streaks all go around.few months of losing. few weeks of winning.few weeks of breaking even.take it from a guy who actually has been playing the game online since they opened.its all rigged.and those who think its not.why is it offshore.?it has to be. for a number of reasons but the big one being.no gaming law's !!!
Mike

Posted at 6:11AM on Sep 19th 2007 by mike

23. I also just read the above comment about pokerstars shortstacks in turny's losing to a bigstack.Wow im shocked people out there notice this also .it is very very true.i have played in the sunday millions.and 100k and once you go lowstacked your basically out.u will go in with your AQ to a 3-6 suited and they will always catch there pair on the river.i have seen more sick beats than anyone.4 people having sets.and the 5th player in having a straight.Lol ive seen 3 players flop sets.last week i lost all my real on pokerstars from 1 nite of bad beats. losing set over set. flopping the nut str8,losing to runner runner full.flopping full houses. and losing to a 23-1 shot miracle on the river.its god awfull ..in my life at pokerstars ive lost with aces full.lost with quads.more than once i must add.the cashout curse is very true.oneday your so hott and running so well.than u cashout.come back the next day.and its torture.your very lucky if you even split a pot.consider it a miracle if you do.All the bad beats i took.id like to add. i got my money in before the river atleast a 90-1 fave.and lost on the river.70% of the time.u cant take it back once its in the middle.thats how they get the good players on that site.they give them the nuts and make them put it all in. and outdraw heaven hits on the river.its awfull.i see a random thing with the seats also.certain seats cant beat another seat.no matter the hand.you can sometimes use it to your advantage but moslty it just hurts you.cuz you'll always have a hand when your oppenent in the luckseat does. and you know you lost.it might sound odd. but its the truth.and to anyone out there thinking of playing for real money online my words to them would be .Do not do it !! its a scam.this is why pokerstars is a billion a year site.there not in it to lose money.they know what there doing.there not fool's.there not goin to have some pro on there taking millions from them monthly.there not idiots.of course they have to say the cards are random they cant tell the public there software will have you broke in a matter of time.wouldnt sound rite.Lol

Posted at 6:50AM on Sep 19th 2007 by mike

24. In refference to all your going to read in my post. If your a winning player who doesnt think pokerstars is rigged? Ill give you my account, change the pass, and ill give u 2 months to show me results otherwise on it. Its really the only way i could show u what i mean.


Ive read many interesting points here.
I myself believe pokerstars is rigged, i dont have much experience on other sites, but i can show anyone who wishes it, a hand history that would personally make you never want to be me. I feel ive experienced a few of the things mentioned in this debate. Ive never spoken of this because of ppl who flame the idea because they win online? Not a good basis for a retort but ok...

I joined in 2005, for the first two months i owned the site black and blue, was $450 up in sit n gos, and made over 1000 in cash games, all from a $20 deposit, i make money in live games, and now i felt like i was as solid as i could hope to be. I took 600 dollars out to go on holiday, and ever since then i cant remember the last time i finished over the bubble in a tournament, or wasnt sucked out on in cash games. I mean 6%'s do happen yes... but 4 in a day? really? I actually find myself watching the flop, knowing im atleast 60/40 fav normally 70/30. And i begin to quickly analyse the only ways i could loose. I can quickly work out exactly how its going to fk me over, ive actually shouted out all u can do is runner runner flush lets see the clubs, u can guess the rest.

Next someone mentioned large stacks finding some strange power over short stacks taking out multiple ppl at a time, this also is so true, i myself have been a victim to this 50+ times, and also have been in the position where i "couldnt believe my luck"

Maybe online poker in general terms isnt rigged and that i cant really stand against without evidence, but my eyes and brain over the last two years had led me to trully believe that pokerstars isnt as random as you would think.

PokerStars Game #10868803330: Tournament #55098862,
Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/07/10 - 15:10:35 (ET)
Table '55098862 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: katifloripa (3480 in chips)
Seat 3: AdlerJack (1480 in chips)
Seat 4: Kalaha3001 (1100 in chips)
Seat 5: TroyBD2 (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr.Sport25 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: ~$PlDER*MAN~ (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: killbill77 (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: mongerofdoom (1480 in chips)
AdlerJack: posts small blind 10
Kalaha3001: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ~$PlDER*MAN~ [Th Ts]
TroyBD2: calls 20
Mr.Sport25: folds
~$PlDER*MAN~: raises 60 to 80
killbill77: folds
mongerofdoom: folds
katifloripa: folds
AdlerJack: folds
Kalaha3001: calls 60
TroyBD2: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Qs Ad Tc]
Kalaha3001: checks
TroyBD2: bets 120
~$PlDER*MAN~: raises 240 to 360
Kalaha3001: folds
TroyBD2: calls 240
*** TURN *** [Qs Ad Tc] [Ac]
TroyBD2: checks
~$PlDER*MAN~: bets 300
TroyBD2: raises 740 to 1040 and is all-in
~$PlDER*MAN~: calls 740
*** RIVER *** [Qs Ad Tc Ac] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TroyBD2: shows [Ah 3s] (four of a kind, Aces)
~$PlDER*MAN~: shows [Th Ts] (a full house, Aces full of Tens)
TroyBD2 collected 3050 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3050 | Rake 0
Board [Qs Ad Tc Ac As]
Seat 2: katifloripa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: AdlerJack (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Kalaha3001 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: TroyBD2 showed [Ah 3s] and won (3050) with four of a kind, Aces
Seat 6: Mr.Sport25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ~$PlDER*MAN~ showed [Th Ts] and lost with a full house, Aces full of Tens
Seat 8: killbill77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mongerofdoom folded before Flop (didn't bet)

i have plenty more of these for you, for every debate you have ill show u a hand where i was RAPING the odds over other players and got "randomly" shat on from above, either god, lee jones or someone must have it in for me eh.

Posted at 7:44PM on Sep 23rd 2007 by David Welsh

25. Nah,nothing rigged about online poker. The fact of the matter is, EVERY MICROGAMING FREE ROLL I PLAY, I CAN'T LOSE FOR THE FIRST HOUR, AND THEN RIGHT BEFORE THE BREAK, A BEAT LIKE THIS, JUST ABOUT LIKE CLOCKWORK EVERY SINGLE TIME. YOU TELLING ME I WAITED SOME 30 DEALS TO SMOKE THIS IDIOT, AND IM GONNA GET RUN OUT OF THE TOURNEY LIKE THIS JUST BEFORE THEY PURGE AT THE BREAK? THEN YOU ARE A DUMMY.

> Game # 1,636,794,345 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards(3h 3d )
> Gromit- folded
> karton raised for 400 K6
> sucker called for 400 33
> NOdontcall folded
> Rick518 folded
> xchecox folded
> getrich1978 folded
> lobolavrud folded
> kri1904 folded
> Dealing the Flop(9s 3s Kh )
> karton bet for 1,100
> sucker went all-in for 5,365.20
> karton called for 4,265.20
> Dealing the turn(9h )
> Dealing the river(9d )
> karton wins 11,830.40 with a Full House, Nines full of Kings
> chalf23 has left the tournament in 927th place
> sucker has left the tournament in 926th place

Posted at 2:43AM on Sep 27th 2007 by MRGUTSHOT

26. After playing online for the better part of 3 years I have NO DOUBT the sites are rigged. I have played on a number of sites and the results are always the same. After thousands and literally thousands of hands and hours spent on the computer what I am describing can best be illustrated by 2 hands i had the misfortune to be involved in. The 1st was on a site that Negraneau was "sponsoring" a couple of years ago. The site is now defunct (surprise, surprise) but it was the FIRST HAND I PLAYED on this particular site and was 2 handed:

me: dealt KK

my thought: go easy...don't scare him off

as i was in the small blind (with 75.00 in front of me) I bet $5

HIm: call

my thought: o boy, I got him on the vine

flop: 88K

me: check

him: bet $10

me: raise $10

Him: reraise $10 bla bla bla...all in.You get the picture. He had pocket 8s.
Now, bad beat stories are a dime a dozen...But 2 handed and on my 1st hand...? o that goes way beyond the pale. The spookiest part about that hand is that the "poker player" didn't say anything just skipped along after completing his work. Wow.
The 2nd hand was on Pacific Poker for much higher stakes...This one came down to a 3 way deal that had me w an Ace high nut flush on the turn. A substantial bet by me got 2 CALLERS...The 2nd player and initial better had an A high ???and the 3rd called a 600 dollar bet on the turn with 2 pair lightening quick. Not even a thought? At any rate..you guessed it... he hit the boat on the river...his comment was "Now thats a river card"
There have been thousands of other hands that turned out exactly the same...Hands that the very best players in the world would have had absolutely no way to get away from...Internet poker is a dirty, disgusting scam run by people that are of the opinion that a clean game is not a way to maximize your profits. Anyone, and I mean anyone who says different is either lying to themselves and others about their results or are in on the scam themselve. May you rot in hell in either case!

Posted at 9:37PM on Sep 30th 2007 by E. MINOR

27. I am in doubt about this issue. I will admit that my oppinions aren't based on empirical observations, or statistics. But the idea of online poker being rigged seems to me a bit in family with other famous conspiracy theories, for example, USA was never on the moon, Kennedy was shot as a result of a conspiracy, 9/11 was planned by the Bush administration, The Philadelphia experiment etc. etc. The feature all these theories have in common is that a lot of people have a lot of oppinions but very few or none have come up with some hard core facts or proof.

If online poker is a hoax the poker companies must have engaged some very able and professional mathematicians and software developers to create these programmes, which have to bee very fine tuned and sophisticated to take all the parameters into consideration. For example which players are to be "setup", how skilled are the various players, how much money have they drawn out, which players should be preferred to win against others etc. All this should add up in a secure profit for the pokersite.

First I have a notion that all these parameters are to complex and futile to fit in to a reliable and secure software program for the pokersites. They might lose money instead if they tried.

Second, if it was possible to make such a program then the other problem of the conspiracy-theories
rise: Why haven't there been any leaks from the innercircle? If there is something murky in the business someone with genuine inside knowledge will "sing" sooner or later. Even how much money they pay the software developers to keep tight, there will always be some of them who think they haven't been payed enough, or who as a result of hate or envy decides to disclose the whole case. Just remember the case about the mafia in USA or on Sicily. Eventually they got some people to witness against there former allies.

I think the online-poker-is-rigged theory shares to many features with the US-was-never-on-the-moon theory. There is to much public awareness and to many people involved to make it possible to cover up a hoax.

Posted at 12:19PM on Oct 9th 2007 by christian

28. Online poker is rigged. It is not necesarily rigged to favour one player; however, the hand combinations that appear are completely unrealistic. once on Absolute poker I saw AA against AA in 3 showdowns over the course of 2 hours. That means an event that should occur about 1 in every 23000 hands occured 3 times in about 180-220 hands. Thats just a ridiculous statistical anomally. Also, on PokerStars i've played sit and go's where 4 of kind (an event that should only occur about 1 in every 400 hands) showed up three times in about 100 hands. These outcomes are just not realistic and they are too common to be a statistical fluke.

Posted at 12:35AM on Dec 18th 2007 by Marcuu

29. well now, its been almost 2 years since ive posted on here, i see absolute got busted, buuuutttt site are not rigged, funny how after they got busted ultimate bet dropped them like a hot rock, now heres the thing, the old argument of (sites wouldnt risk there rep by cheating) well right after the news came out that they got busted i downloaded there software to see how it affected them and really i havent seen any drop off, lets see what else, a well known pro (the mouth) has let it be known that good players never win online, because of the 1-2 cards that ALWAYS seem to hit, man is he right on (go mike go) one last thing, if i should ever win a big tourny (wsop or wpt) and the big onliners came to me saying please rep our site, i couldnt get, (NO WAY AM I REP YOUR CROOKED SITE) out of my mouth fast enough, as always thanks for reading my opinion

Posted at 11:37AM on Jan 24th 2008 by bob green

30. Hi,

For serious discussions on the riggedness of online poker, and other ugly forms of cheating, such as super users, bots and more, me and two friends just started a discussion forum:

http://poker-is-rigged.sitebooth.com/forum/

I hope that posting this link is OK. It's not a commercial site or anything. I think (hope) that some people may find it interesting. Have a look yourself!

At this moment, there really isn't anything on the site, we're just starting up. :)

/ Spinto

Posted at 7:13AM on Mar 24th 2008 by Spinto_P

31. Online poker is rigged! There is no doubt in my mind! I have tracked over 100,000 hands in real money games. Think about this "NO ONE REALLY KNOWS" All of the people that say it is not have you gone and tested the software? Have you been to there location? How do you know for sure. Please understand I have won trips from Party Poker and won big tournments at Full Tilt.

Think about this online poker is illegal in the US. If you are not afraid of the US government then who are you afraid of? I can complain, but I am only one person not the US Governemnt.

Think about this. It is illegal to play online poker, but you do. This is like having a best friend that is a bank robber, but you trust them not to steal from you.

I will not happen eventually they will hit you too!

Posted at 6:58PM on May 20th 2008 by reipro

32. I play at pokerstars, although not for cash anymore.

Everyone uses the defense of 'you play more hands so you'll see more action.' That's such a copout it's rediculous... Let's put some perspective, when I play with my buddies a table of 6 deals about 3-5 hands every 10 min, in a live game you'll see about 7-10 hands... so let's say you see about 50-100% more hands online.

Now, what are the odds of as example : I've seen this one live JJ vs QQ with the flop J J Q A Q. Or countless times where I'd see someone go all in with random cards only to hit EVERYTHIGN he needed to win, and several hands IN A ROW at that. Or better yet, pocket aces are expected to lose about 20% of the time? Then why on pokerstars does AA get sucked out about 70-80% of the times I've seen people turn them? Actually I personnally had a run with AA a while back where 17 times in a row of getting pocket aces lost (over 2 tourneys and 3 sng's)
Where the odds of seeing these things live would be staggering ESPECIALLY relative to the number of hands on vs offline.

Really, seeing 2x as many hands does not explain the thousand to 1 odds breakers you see regularly on sites like pokerstars.

Now, I'm not a computer programmer, but I do know about how programs work... and it is VERY possible to have RANDOM card generator that is only random in the sense that it must pick numbers spread out over the percentage odds of them hitting, AND still create action flops, give an edge to the bigger stacks, or any other 'rules' of 'randomness' you'd like to add.

Do you honestly think that the people hired to 'verify' randomness are actually combing through each individual line of code as it appears on the servers??

before you say 'why would they risk it?' because people in general are stupid. Full tilt poker was found to be cheating... have they gone out of business yet?? These are companies that work offshore, do you really think it would be that hard for them to tell the programmers "if you tell anyone in anyway how the system is really working you won't make it off the island alive."

I'm not saying this as a losing player, I'm saying this as an OBSERVANT player.

Posted at 9:41PM on May 28th 2008 by bman